I-International Science Council kanye neLungu layo, i-China Association for Science and Technology (SAKA), ngokubambisana no Nature, bethula uchungechunge olusha lwe-podcast olunezingxenye eziyisithupha oluhlola isimo esithuthukayo semisebenzi yocwaningo. Kulolu chungechunge, abacwaningi abasakhula nabaphakathi nendawo bazoba nengxoxo nososayensi abadala, babelana ngolwazi lokukhula, ukubambisana, nokuqina lapho bebhekene noshintsho olusheshayo.
Isiqephu ngasinye sigqamisa kokubili amathuba nezingcindezi ezakha imisebenzi yesayensi namuhla. Kusukela ekuphatheni ukusebenzisana komhlaba wonke kanye nokuhlanganisa ubuchwepheshe obusha, kuya ekulinganiseni umsebenzi wezinhlanga ezahlukene kanye nokulindelwe umphakathi, uchungechunge luhlinzeka ngemininingwane esebenzayo kumakhono nemibono edingekayo ukuze uphumelele emsebenzini wesayensi.
Esiqeshini sokuqala, intatheli yesayensi Izzie Clarke ukhuluma no USolwazi Robert Dijkgraaf, isazi sefiziksi yethiyori kanye noMongameli Okhethiwe we-ISC, kanye USolwazi Baojing Gu eNyuvesi yaseZhejiang. Ndawonye, baxoxa ngesivinini esisheshayo soshintsho ocwaningweni - ukusuka ku-AI kanye nedatha enkulu kuya ekusebenzisaneni komhlaba wonke - futhi babonisa ukuthi ososayensi bamakadebona bangaguqula kanjani lezi zinselele zibe amathuba.
Abalaleli bazothola imibono yokuzulazula ngokusebenzisana kwamazwe ngamazwe, ukwakha amanethiwekhi ochwepheshe bempilo yonke, kanye nokuthola ikhampasi yomuntu siqu phakathi kwesimo sezemfundo esishintshayo.
Hamba: U-Izzie Clarke, intatheli yeSayensi
izivakashi: USolwazi Robbert Dijkgraaf (Isazi sesayensi yezemvelo, uMongameli okhethiwe we-ISC) kanye noSolwazi u-Baojing Gu (Ukuphathwa Kwezemvelo Nezinsiza, Inyuvesi yase-Zhejiang).
[00:01] U-Izzie Clarke
Sawubona futhi wamukelekile. Ngiyintatheli yesayensi u-Izzie Clarke futhi kulolu chungechunge lwama-podcast, ethulwa ngokubambisana ne-International Science Council, ngokusekelwa yi-China Association for Science and Technology, sizobe sihlola isimo sesayensi esishintshayo sabacwaningi bokuqala namaphakathi - nendlela engcono kakhulu yokuyizulazula.
Namuhla, ngijoyinwe nguSolwazi Robbert Dijkgraaf, isazi sefiziksi yetiyori kanye noMongameli Okhethiwe WoMkhandlu Wesayensi Yamazwe Ngamazwe.
[00:32] URobert Dijkgraaf
Sawubona.
[00:33] U-Izzie Clarke
Kanye no-Baojing Gu wase-Zhejiang University, uSolwazi Wezemvelo Nokuphathwa Kwezinsiza.
[00:38] I-Baojing Gu
Sanibonani nonke.
[00:39] U-Izzie Clarke
Ngiyabonga kakhulu nobabili ngokuhlanganyela nami. Robbert, ake siqale ngawe. Usukhulumile ngokuthi isimo sesayensi sibhekana kanjani noshintsho olukhulu - yilokho lesi siqephu esimayelana nakho. Ngakho-ke, ngokubona kwakho, yiziphi izinguquko ezinkulu emisebenzini yesayensi namuhla, ikakhulukazi kubacwaningi abancane nabamaphakathi?
[00:59] URobert Dijkgraaf
Sisoguqukweni olukhulu kuwo wonke umkhakha wezemfundo. Sibona lokhu kushesha kobuchwepheshe obusha, bomphakathi omkhulu ukhula. Kodwa futhi izimfuno emphakathini wocwaningo ziba namandla kakhulu. Sifuna ukuthi abacwaningi bangagcini nje ngokuphumelela ekwenzeni ucwaningo. Sifuna basebenze emaqenjini ahlukahlukene, sifuna baxhumane nomphakathi, sifuna bathole izeluleko zenqubomgomo. Ngakho-ke, uma ungumcwaningi womsebenzi wangaphambi kwesikhathi, ungase uzizwe ukhungathekile ngokuthi uzoyihamba kanjani leyo ndawo uma ishintsha ngokushesha kangaka.
[01:44] I-Baojing Gu
Namuhla, sinoshintsho olusheshayo lobuchwepheshe obusha, obufana ne-AI nedatha enkulu. Sidinga ukuthi isetshenziswe ngezilimi eziningi ezivela ezindaweni ezihlukene zocwaningo, futhi ngicabanga ukuthi leyo inselele enkulu ezizukulwaneni ezincane ezizama ukuqonda umhlaba omusha womhlaba nokusebenzisa ama-engeli abanzi.
[02:08] U-Izzie Clarke
Futhi lolo shintsho olusheshayo, lobu buchwepheshe obusha kanye nalokho kusheshisa… yebo, lezo yizinselele kodwa zizohlinzeka ngamathuba amasha, futhi. Ngakho-ke, ungabeluleka ngani abacwaningi abangaphambi kwesikhathi nabaphakathi kwe-career ababhekene nalokho?
[02:22] URobert Dijkgraaf
Kunamathuba amahle kakhulu, hhayi nje ukwenza umsebenzi omuhle kakhulu kepha wokuklama kabusha isakhiwo sezemfundo esisebenza kuso. Akhona ngempela amathuba esizukulwane esilandelayo sokushintsha indlela esenza ngayo isayensi, sicabange ngendlela ehlukile ngezindlela zemisebenzi, sicabange ngendlela ehlukile ngokusebenzisana. Emashumini amaningi eminyaka, besinebhizinisi locwaningo elimile, futhi manje siphila esikhathini lapho sinomuzwa wokuthi lokhu akuseyona indlela efanele yokuzimisa. Futhi sizobe sidumaza umphakathi, sidumaze abenzi benqubomgomo, sizobe sizidumaza uma singawuhleli kabusha umkhakha wezemfundo.
[03:10] I-Baojing Gu
Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi sinezinselelo ezintsha namathuba amasha. Futhi ikakhulukazi sinedatha enkulu. Sinobuchwepheshe obusha, ikakhulukazi be-AI. Abagxili endaweni eyodwa kuphela. Empeleni, i-interdisciplinary. Ngakho-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi lokho sekuyizinsuku zokuqamba ezintsha ezengezwe ubuchwepheshe obusha. Singakwazi ukuxazulula izinkinga eziningi noma izinkinga ezinzima kakhulu ezizukulwaneni ezincane. Uma ubheka ukuxazulula izinkinga ngezindlela ezihlukene kakhulu, lokho kungaxazulula kalula imibuzo eminingi enzima kakhulu. Ngicabanga ukuthi lelo yithuba lezizukulwane ezincane.
[03:54] U-Izzie Clarke
Futhi kuyavula, ngicabanga ukuthi, lokho kufinyeleleka nokuxhumana nakho. Labo bacwaningi basendulo bangazizwa kanjani benamandla okuqala olunye lwalolo shintsho?
[04:07] URobert Dijkgraaf
Ngicabanga ukuthi enye yezinjabulo ezinkulu zokuba usosayensi ukuthi uyingxenye yomphakathi womhlaba wonke. Ngakho-ke, ngiyisazi sefiziksi futhi ngikhuluma nezazi zefiziksi emhlabeni jikelele. Uma ukhuluma ngokuthi kufanele uwamise kanjani ama-career, ukuthi kufanele uguqule kanjani indlela esibambisana ngayo, ukuthi kufanele uhlele kanjani izikhungo zemfundo, ngokuvamile leyo yingxoxo onayo kuzwelonke kuphela. Ngizoba nengxoxo e-Netherlands futhi u-Baojing uzoba nengxoxo e-China, futhi lezi yizingxoxo ezihlukene. Kodwa empeleni, ziyizinkinga ezifanayo ezivamile ngoba ziqhutshwa amandla amakhulu omphakathi athinta isayensi. Ngakho-ke, into emangalisayo engenziwa yi-ISC ukuba nalezi zingxoxo. Ukugqugquzela izingxoxo ezinjengalezi kuyanika amandla ngoba abantu abasha abaningi banemibono eyesabekayo. Ingxenye yendima ye-ISC ukushintshana ngalezi zinqubo ezihamba phambili.
[05:08] I-Baojing Gu
Sinomhlaba owodwa, indlu eyodwa. Sidinga umhlaba usebenzisane, ikakhulukazi ezindabeni zokuguquguquka kwesimo sezulu. Isifunda ngasinye sinezinkinga zaso. Ngakho-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi i-ISC inenkundla esivumela ukuthi sixoxe sodwa. Lokho kusiza ososayensi ukuba baqonde ukusimama ezindaweni ezihlukahlukene zomhlaba. Futhi ekugcineni, sibumbana njengomhlaba owodwa.
[05:34] URobert Dijkgraaf
Lelo iphuzu elibaluleke ngempela elenziwe u-Baojing. Asikwazi ukuxazulula lezi zinkinga ezinkulu uma singabambisani emhlabeni jikelele.
[05:43] U-Izzie Clarke
Yebo, ngokuphelele. Kodwa ngalokho kubambisana kwamazwe ngamazwe kufika ukuhamba, ukuxhumana, futhi ngezinye izikhathi lokho kungase kube nzima, ikakhulukazi uma usekuqaleni noma phakathi nomsebenzi wakho. Ngakho-ke, Baojing, yiziphi izinselelo ohlangabezane nazo ekuhlanganyeleni kwamazwe ngamazwe futhi ukwazile kanjani ukuzivumelanisa naleso simo?
[06:05] I-Baojing Gu
Ngicabanga ukuthi ekuqaleni, njengomcwaningi womsebenzi wangaphambi kwesikhathi, noma ungathola izinsiza zokukusekela ukuze wenze ukubambisana kwamazwe ngamazwe, noma ngabe unesikhathi nezinsiza zokumboza izindleko, lokho kubaluleke kakhulu. Namuhla, singakwazi ukuxhuma ku-inthanethi, kodwa kusebenza ngendlela ehlukile uma uya ukuhlangana nabantu ngempela, ukhulume nabantu. Imibono ivela ekumoyizeleni kwabo. Noma bethukuthele. Ungabaqonda ngempela abantu nezingxenye ezihlukahlukene zomhlaba ngokuxhumana ubuso nobuso.
[06:40] U-Izzie Clarke
Yebo, akungabazeki ukuthi kunokuthile okukhethekile mayelana nokuxhumana ubuso nobuso. Kodwa lokho futhi kuncike ezinsizeni futhi lokho kuyinto okufanele ilungiswe - noma ngabe leyo mali, ingqalasizinda noma isikhathi - ethinta ososayensi emhlabeni wonke. Ngakho-ke, yiziphi izixazululo noma izinhlaka zokusekela ocabanga ukuthi zisebenza kakhulu kubacwaningi abangaphambi kwesikhathi nabamaphakathi?
[07:03] URobert Dijkgraaf
Ngicabanga ukuthi kubaluleke kakhulu ukuveza leli phuzu asanda kuliveza u-Baojing: kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba nalokhu kusebenzisana komuntu siqu. Kodwa ekuqaleni komsebenzi wakho, awuboni ukuthi laba bantu ohlangana nabo bangase bahambe nawe wonke umsebenzi wakho, futhi laba othintana nabo impilo yonke bazokhokha. Ngakho-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi kubaluleke ngendlela emangalisayo ukuthi abantu abahlela izingqungquthela, izikole, imicimbi baqinisekise ukuthi banazo izindlela nezinsiza ezikhona zokweseka abacwaningi abasebasha abavela emhlabeni wonke, ikakhulukazi iGlobal South, abavela ezindaweni lapho bekhawulelwe khona kakhulu ezinsizeni. Ukuze sizuze ukulingana kusayensi, kubalulekile ukuthi senze okwengeziwe kulabo abanokuncane.
[07:56] I-Baojing Gu
Empeleni, ngibambe iqhaza emihlanganweni eminingana eyayibanjwe yi-ISC futhi yangikhokhela zonke izindleko zami. Ngibonga kakhulu ngalokho, nokuthi ngikwazile ukuya eKuala Lumpur nase-Oman. Ngicabanga ukuthi indawo ibalulekile. Ngivumelana noRobert ukuthi uma singaba nomhlangano e-Afrika noma kwezinye izifunda lapho sishoda ngezinsiza, kodwa silethe ezinye izingxenye zomhlaba lapho, kuvumela abantu abaningi abavela kuleso sifunda ukuba babambe iqhaza emisebenzini enjalo.
[08:33] U-Izzie Clarke
Ngakho, ake sibheke phambili esikhathini esizayo. Yimaphi amathrendi amakhulu eniwabona nobabili ngokwemisebenzi yesayensi, futhi abacwaningi bangaphambi kwesikhathi namaphakathi bangawalungiselela kanjani kangcono?
[08:45] URobert Dijkgraaf
Engikubona kwenzeka ukuthi impilo kasosayense ngeke isaba ne-dimensional eyodwa. Ungaya kwezinye izinkambu, ungasebenza ekufinyeleleni umphakathi, ekuxhumaneni. Futhi-ke, enye inkambiso enkulu ukuthi sibheka iqoqo ngoba zonke lezo zimfuno ezikusayensi, akekho noyedwa umuntu ongakwenza njengomuntu oyedwa. Kufanele sikwenze ngokuhlanganyela ezikhungweni zethu, ezizweni zethu, kanye nasemphakathini womhlaba. Umlayezo wami omkhulu kososayensi besikhathi sangaphambi kwesikhathi: zizwe ukhululekile ukuhlola leso sikhala. Gcina leso simo sengqondo sokuhlola onaso ocwaningweni lwakho nomsebenzi wakho siqu, futhi uzitholele eyakho indlela kulesi sikhala esikhulu lapho uzizwa usekhaya kakhulu.
[09:38] I-Baojing Gu
Ngicabanga ukuthi ikusasa lidala kakhulu esizukulwaneni esisha ngosizo lwe-AI, futhi singenza imisebenzi eminingi yokudala. Futhi singase singashintshi isayensi kuphela, kodwa futhi nomhlaba - ukuthi abantu baxhuma kanjani komunye nomunye, ukuthi abantu bakhuluma kanjani omunye nomunye. Sakha izindawo zobuchwepheshe obuphezulu zesizukulwane esisha, esizivumela ukuthi zakhe izinhlaka ezintsha noma izinto ezingaholela isintu esinyathelweni sethu esilandelayo. Enye into ukucabanga okujulile. Lapho sifunda, kungakhathaliseki ukuthi sisebenzisa ukucabanga okugxekayo, kungakhathaliseki ukuthi thina mathupha senze okungalungile noma singenza kangcono. Futhi ingxenye yesithathu ebaluleke kakhulu ukubona umhlaba. Sidinga ngempela ukuya ensimini, sibone umhlaba, sikhulume nezakhamuzi ukuze ziqonde ukuphila kwazo, ukuqonda umhlaba wangempela. Bese sihlanganisa ukucabanga kwethu okubucayi, ukufundwa nolwazi oseluvele lwaziwayo, futhi sibone ukuthi singakwazi yini ukudala imibono emisha yokusimama esikhathini esizayo.
[10:50] U-Izzie Clarke
Iphuzu elihle lelo, kumayelana nokulalela nokunaka kokubili idatha yakho, kanye nomhlaba wangempela nokuthi lolo cwaningo lunomthelela oni.
[11:00] URobert Dijkgraaf
Ngingathi futhi lalela izwi lakho elingaphakathi. Umhlaba oyinkimbinkimbi ngempela owuhambayo, lolu lwandle olukhulukazi. Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi ngaphakathi kuwe, unekhampasi encane ekutshela ukuthi uthando lwakho lukuphi, mhlawumbe isiqalo sombono siyini. Qiniseka ukuthi ulalela leli zwi elincane elingaphakathi kwakho, ngoba lokho kuzokuqondisa esikhathini esizayo.
[11:25] U-Izzie Clarke
Iseluleko esihle. Nginibonga kakhulu nobabili ngokuhlanganyela nami namuhla.
Uma ungumcwaningi wangaphambi kwesikhathi noma omaphakathi futhi ufuna ukuba yingxenye yomphakathi womhlaba oshiwo u-Baojing no-Robert, joyina inkundla ye-International Science Council yososayensi abasafufusa.
Vakashela: umkhandlu.isayensi/inkundla
Ngingu-Izzie Clarke, futhi ngokuzayo sizobe sihlola ukubaluleka kwemisebenzi ngaphakathi kwenqubomgomo yesayensi. Kuze kube yileso sikhathi.
Funda kabanzi mayelana ne-Science Diplomat Podcast: Sir Peter Gluckman ngeseluleko seSayensi, ukwethenjwa, kanye nemikhawulo yobufakazi Funda kabanzi ngeSayensi engenamingcele: Ukusebenzisana kwamazwe ngamazwe kwesizukulwane esilandelayo sabacwaningi Funda kabanzi mayelana nokucabanga Kabusha ukukhula kanye nokuqina ohlelweni lwendawo yocwaningo 