I-International Science Council kanye neLungu layo, i-China Association for Science and Technology (SAKA), ngokubambisana no Nature, sethule uchungechunge olusha lwe-podcast olunezingxenye eziyisithupha oluhlola isimo esithuthukayo semisebenzi yocwaningo. Kulolu chungechunge, abacwaningi abasakhula nabaphakathi nendawo bazoba nengxoxo nososayensi abadala, babelana ngolwazi lokukhula, ukubambisana, nokuqina lapho bebhekene noshintsho olusheshayo.
Kudingekani ukwenza isayensi ibe isenzo esiteji somhlaba? Kulesi siqephu sesibili, intatheli yesayensi u-Izzie Clarke ukhuluma ngamaphimbo amabili aphambili kudiplomacy yesayensi: USolwazi Zakri Hamid, owayengumeluleki wezesayensi kuNdunankulu waseMalaysia, kanye U-María Estelí Jarquín, Ilungu le-ISC Governing Board kanye nomphathi wobudlelwano bamazwe ngamazwe e-UK Center for Ecology and Hydrology.
Ndawonye, babheka izindlela zabo zemisebenzi futhi babelane ngemininingwane yokuthi abacwaningi bangakha kanjani imisebenzi ephusile kunqubomgomo yesayensi, idiplomacy, kanye nezindima zokweluleka. Kusukela ekwelulekeni ondunankulu kuye ezingxoxweni zamazwe ngamazwe, banikeza imibono eqotho nezeluleko ezisebenzayo ngamakhono, indlela yokucabanga, namathuba abaluleke kakhulu.
Izzie Clarke: 00:01
Sawubona futhi wamukelekile kulolu chungechunge lwe-podcast mayelana nokushintsha kwesimo sesayensi kubacwaningi bangaphambi kwesikhathi namaphakathi, ethulwa ngokubambisana noMkhandlu Wesayensi Wamazwe Ngamazwe, ngokusekelwa yi-China Association for Science and Technology.
Ngiyintatheli yesayensi u-Izzie Clarke, futhi lesi siqephu sigxile ekubalulekeni kwemisebenzi ngaphakathi kwenqubomgomo yesayensi, idiplomacy nezeluleko, kanye namakhono ayisihluthulelo adingwa abacwaningi abasakhula kuya kwabamaphakathi abathanda ukusebenza kule mikhakha.
Namuhla, ngijoyinwe nguSolwazi Zakri Hamid, uMqondisi we-International Institute of Science Diplomacy and Sustainability at UCSI University e-Kuala Lumpur, owayengumeluleki wezeSayensi kuNdunankulu waseMalaysia futhi Fellow we-International Science Council.
Zakri Hamid 00:49:
Hi Izzie.
Izzie Clarke 00:51:
Futhi u-María Estelí Jarquín, okwamanje oyingxenye yebhodi elibusayo loMkhandlu Wesayensi Yezizwe Ngezizwe, futhi ongumphathi wobudlelwano bamazwe ngamazwe e-UK Center for Ecology and Hydrology e-Oxfordshire.
U-María Estelí Jarquín 01:03:
Sawubona, Izie. Sawubona, Solwazi Zakri. Siyabonga ngalesi simemo.
Izzie Clarke 01:07:
Ngiyabonga kakhulu nobabili. Manje, ngijabule kakhulu ukukhuluma nawe. Ngisho, izindima ezibaluleke kakhulu eninazo nobabili. Ngakho, María, singaqala ngawe? Kungani inqubomgomo yesayensi, idiplomacy kanye nezindima zokweluleka zibaluleke kangaka emhlabeni wanamuhla?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 01:23:
Lowo umbuzo othakazelisa kakhulu, Izzie. Ngakho-ke, siphila esikhathini emlandweni lapho sidinga abakhi bamabhuloho kakhulu kunangaphambili. Ngakho-ke, abantu, imibono, engaxhuma kuzo zonke izigaba, ikhuthaze inkhulumomphendvulwano, ibuyisane namaqembu aphikisayo ukuze ahlangane futhi athole izixazululo zesikhathi eside. Futhi kuwo wonke umsebenzi wami, ngimangele ngempela lokho isayensi engayenza - ukunciphisa ukungezwani, ukusiza ukubhekana nezimo ezinzima.
Futhi lena indima eqondile yenqubomgomo yesayensi, idiplomacy yesayensi kanye nezindima zokweluleka. Babaluleke ngempela ngoba bayabona ukuthi lokhu kuhlangana kolwazi nokwenza kanye nesayensi kunaleli khono lokweqa imingcele, ukuhlanganisa amazwe ukuze asebenzisane mhlawumbe kwezinye izimo abengeke akwazi. Abeluleki besayensi, osomaqhinga besayensi, abagcini nje ngokuxazulula izinkinga zanamuhla. Babeka izisekelo zalawo mabhuloho lapho izizukulwane ezizayo ekhulwini, eminyakeni engamakhulu amabili kusukela manje ziyohamba phambili.
Izzie Clarke 02:26:
Zakri, weluleke kwamanye amazinga aphezulu e-Malaysia. Ngakho, ukuba umeluleki wesayensi kuhilelani ngempela futhi kungaba namuphi umthelela?
Zakri Hamid 02:36:
Ake nginitshele umyalelo owodwa ovela kuNdunankulu. Lapho ngiqala ukuhlangana naye, wathi, “Ngiyazi ukuthi ungusosayensi futhi mina ngingosopolitiki.
Wathi, "Ingabe izeluleko zesayensi zingahumusha zibe imali engcono kubantu bethu?" Okusho ukuthi, singasebenzisa isayensi ukuze sinciphise ubumpofu? Futhi eyesibili, wathi, "Ingabe leso seluleko sesayensi singahumushela emisebenzini?" Lezi iziyalezo ezilula kakhulu kodwa ziyinselele kakhulu. Ngakho, lokhu ukubaluleka, ukubaluleka, kwesayensi namuhla. Futhi indlela engikwenza ngayo, vele, bekunamazinga amaningi kusukela ekusebenzeni nezinkonzo ezithintekayo kwezesayensi noma ekuxhumaneni nozakwethu phesheya kwezilwandle.
Izzie Clarke 03:45:
Impela, futhi ngicabanga ukuthi lokho… ubuhle besayensi ukuthi inamandla kakhulu ekuxazululeni izinkinga. Kodwa futhi siyabadinga labo bantu abaphila lezo zigigaba ukuze bakudlulisele lokho ocwaningweni lwabo, futhi.
María, uwakhe umsebenzi wakho ekuxhumaniseni isayensi nenqubomgomo. Ngakho-ke, yini ekudonseleni kule ndlela futhi yiziphi izinselele owabhekana nazo kusenesikhathi?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 04:10:
Ngemuva kweminyaka yami yobunye, ngaqashwa ukuthi ngijoyine amaqembu ahlukene ochwepheshe ukuze ngeluleke uhulumeni waseLatin America ngezihloko ezahlukene. Ngangihlale ngizibuza ukuthi kungani lawo maqembu e-consultancy ekhona esikhundleni sokubonisana nocwaningo olukhulu olwenzeka. Ngakho-ke, ngaqala ukubheka izinhlelo ze-Master lapho engangingafunda khona okwengeziwe ngalokho kuhlangana phakathi kwesayensi nenqubomgomo, futhi kwaba isiqalo sayo yonke into kulo msebenzi kimi.
Izinselele. Hhayi-ke, ngivela eLatin America, ngivela ezweni labantu abahola kancane. Ngasheshe ngabona ukuthi ngeke ngibe nezwi etafuleni. Inselelo yokuqala, mhlawumbe izinhlaka zethu zomeluleki besayensi azihlelekile njengamanye amazwe, ngakho-ke singakusungula kanjani lokho kuqwashisa ngamasiko ngokubaluleka kwalezo zakhiwo. Kodwa futhi ukuthi ungaba kanjani nezwi emhlabeni lapho cishe isifunda sami sasimelwe ngaphansi ezingxoxweni ezinkulu ezizungeze idiplomacy yesayensi.
Izzie Clarke 05:10:
Ukuzulazule kanjani lokho futhi uye wazulazula kanjani kwezinye izithiyo ezisebenzayo, noma ngabe lokho ubulili, isiyalo noma indawo, engasiza abanye abasesimeni esifanayo?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 05:23:
Ngicabanga ukuthi ngithonywe yiyo yonke lezo zithiyo ezisebenzayo ozishilo - ubulili, ukuziphatha, igeography kanye, okubaluleke kakhulu, ubudala. Ngakho-ke, iseluleko sami lapho mayelana nendlela yokuhamba kungaba, okokuqala, uzilungiselele, ufunde. Fika ngempela emhlanganweni noma engqungqutheleni noma emhlanganweni wezizwe ngezizwe uzilungiselele kahle ngesihloko, uzilungiselele kahle ngokuthi ubani ozohambela futhi.
Okwesibili, yiba nabeluleki abazokusiza ukuthi uzulazule kulezo zimo. Abeluleki okungenzeka abaphambi kwakho emsebenzini wakho abangabelana ngezifundo zabo ngempilo.
Okwesithathu nokokugcina - zithobe. Lapho ngiqala ukusebenza ngokubambisana noma ukwakha amabhuloho phakathi kwezikhungo zesayensi nezinkonzo zezangaphandle eLatin America - amazwe amabili ahlukene kakhulu - ngikhumbula ngifika ehhovisi lezangaphandle eCosta Rica futhi ngathi kubo, "Sawubona, ngiza lapha ukuze ningifundise konke enicabanga ukuthi ngidinga ukukufunda kini." Ngabathemba. Futhi ukwenza kanjani lokho? Ngokuzithoba, ngokuvuleleka ekufundeni izinto ezintsha kanye nozakwenu kanye nozakwenu ezingxoxweni zezizwe ngezizwe noma ezingxoxweni zamazwe amabili, futhi.
Izzie Clarke 06:41:
Ngicabanga ukuthi lelo yiphuzu elithakazelisayo ngoba ngicabanga ukuthi ngezinye izikhathi abantu bangangena ezimeni futhi bacishe bazizwe besaba, besaba ukuvuma ukuthi bangase bangazi okuthile abafuna ukufunda ngakho. Ngicabanga ukuthi izinga lokuba sengozini futhi ukuthi ngifundise, ngisize.
Zakri, singabheka umsebenzi wakho okwesikhashana? Yiziphi ezinye zalezo zikhathi ezibalulekile noma ukukhetha okusizile ekulolongeni imikhakha eyahlukene, umsebenzi ogxile kunqubomgomo?
Zakri Hamid 07:10:
Omunye umbuzo othakazelisayo. Lapho ngithola i-PhD yami, inhloso yami kwakuwukubuyela ngiyofundisa enyuvesi. Ushintsho kwaba lapho ngimenywa ukuba ngibe umeluleki wezesayensi noma wezobuchwepheshe ethimba likahulumeni waseMalaysia elalixoxisana nge-UN Convention on Biological Diversity, futhi lokhu kwakungo-1990. Ekupheleni kosuku lokuqala lwezingxoxo, ngaqunga isibindi esanele sokukhuluma nenhloko yezithunywa eyayiyinxusa.
Ngakho, ngamtshela, Nkosikazi Yenxusa, ngicabanga ukuthi ngifuna ukuya ekhaya. Wathi, ngani? Ngathi, angijwayele ngempela noma angikhululekile ngokuqhutshwa komhlangano. Leli thimba elivela emazweni angamalungu e-UN, elivela emazweni angu-200, lalizohlangana esigcawini isikhathi esiyingxenye yehora bese lihlehlisa. Babehlehlela endaweni yokuphumula yezihambeli amahora amabili nesigamu, bephuza ikhofi noma yini.
Ngakho, ngamtshela, angicabangi ukuthi ngingangena. Khona-ke iNxusa langitshela, Solwazi, kungani ungaziniki izinsuku ezimbalwa ezengeziwe? Wayehlekisa kodwa futhi ephatheke kabi. Lokho kwenzeka eminyakeni ecishe ibe ngu-40 edlule. Angizange ngibheke emuva. Uyazi ukuthi kungani? Ngoba bekusendlini yokuphumula izithunywa lapho bekuvunyelwana khona.
Izzie Clarke 08:44:
Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kusiholela kahle emaphuzwini okukhuluma ngamakhono. Ukuze ube nalawo mandla okuxoxisana nokubhekana nalezo zingxoxo, ungasho ukuthi yimaphi amakhono abalulekile okusebenza kunqubomgomo yesayensi futhi abacwaningi bangaqala kanjani ukuwathuthukisa?
Zakri Hamid 09:05:
Okokuqala, kumelwe ube isilaleli esihle. Okwesibili, kufanele futhi wazise isikhundla sesitha sakho. Okwesithathu, kufanele ubekezele ngomqondo wokuthi abanye abantu bakhuluma kakhulu kunalokho okufanele. Okwesine, kumele ube nolwazi.
Ngakho-ke, njengososayensi, vele unalo ulwazi. Kodwa futhi kufanele uqaphele kakhulu ukuthi izeluleko zesayensi esizinikezayo kufanele zihambisane nodaba. Okokugcina, ngicabanga, noma iyiphi inqubomgomo esiyinikezayo akufanele ibe yimigomo yenqubomgomo. Kufanele ihambisane nenqubomgomo.
U-María Estelí Jarquín 09:51:
Futhi ngibhalisela ngokuphelele yonke into eshiwo uZakri. Futhi ngingangeza amakhono amabili nje athambile. Esokuqala - ikhono lokuxoxa indaba. Futhi lokhu kuzosiza ososayensi nabacwaningi bemisebenzi yangaphambi kwesikhathi ukuthi babelane ngesayensi yabo kangcono. Ikhono lesibili elibalulekile - ukuxhumana. Futhi lokhu ukufunda indlela yokubona izehlakalo ezifanele, abantu abalungile ongakhuluma nabo ukusiza ukukhulisa umsebenzi wakho bese wakha indawo efanayo, wakhe ukwethembana nalabo bantu ukuze, A, ufunde kubo noma, ababili, babeluleke.
Izzie Clarke 10:25:
Ngakho-ke, kinina nobabili, nilibona kuphi ithuba elikhulu kakhulu labacwaningi abasanda kuqala kuya kwabaphakathi kwemfundo ukuze banikele ngokuzuzisayo ezingxoxweni zenqubomgomo yomhlaba wonke noma kazwelonke?
Zakri Hamid 10:39:
Isiqalo sokuqala ukukwenza emazingeni akini noma kazwelonke ukuze uhlanganyele nezinkonzo. Ukhulume ngomnyango wezangaphandle - lokho kungenye yeqiniso. Kodwa kwezesayensi, kunezinye eziningi. UMnyango wezeSayensi, ezobuchwepheshe kanye nokusungula izinto ezintsha, umnyango wezohwebo. Udinga umshado.
Ukwenza lokho kungenzeka ukunikeza usizo lwakho kulawo makomiti amisiwe. Okunye ukuletha abangani bakho besayensi. Sizoqaphela ngesinye isikhathi, hhayi ngaso sonke isikhathi, ososayensi banethezeke kakhulu embhoshongweni wabo wezinyo lendlovu. Uma ungumfundi, ushicilela amaphepha, ufuna ukukhushulelwa esikhundleni sokuba uprofesa noma yini. Zilungile lezo.
Kodwa kukhona enye into okufanele ibandakanye nezifundiswa. Futhi lokho kuwukuhlola ukuthi ingabe imiphumela yocwaningo lwakho iyahambisana yini nesizwe, ihambisana nesifunda. Ngakho-ke, uma lokho kuhambisana kungekho, ngizokutshela ukuthi unendawo enkulu yokukhula.
Izzie Clarke 11:50:
Futhi uMaría?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 11:51:
Ngingathanda ukuhambisa umlayezo kubo bonke labo bacwaningi abasaqala ukuya kwabamaphakathi abavela emazweni anemali engenayo ephansi naphakathi okungenzeka bayasilalela. Yiba nesibindi sokuza kule nqubomgomo kazwelonke noma izingxoxo zomhlaba wonke ngoba ngiqinisekile ukuthi uzoyihlukanisa ingxoxo, ngoba uzoletha imibono emisha. Mhlawumbe uzoletha izindlela ezintsha.
Yeka ukuthi kubaluleke kangakanani ukuba nothile etafuleni ongasho ukuthi izinto zihamba kanjani eNingizimu-mpumalanga Asia, e-Afrika noma eLatin America. Ukukhuluma ngobudlelwane obulinganayo lapho usebenza kwezesayensi, ikakhulukazi ukuletha izwi kubo bonke labo abebengameleli kahle kwisayensi, kodwa nasezingxoxweni zenqubomgomo ezingeni lezizwe ngezizwe.
Izzie Clarke 12:38:
Ngiyabonga nobabili ngokuhlanganyela nami namuhla.
Uma ungumcwaningi wangaphambi kwesikhathi noma omaphakathi futhi ufuna ukuba yingxenye yomphakathi womhlaba, joyina inkundla ye-International Science Council yososayensi abasafufusa.
Vakashela iwebhusayithi umkhandlu.isayensi/inkundla. Ngingu-Izzie Clarke, futhi ngokuzayo sizobe sihlola umthelela we-AI kanye nokwenza idijithali emisebenzini yesayensi. Kuze kube yileso sikhathi.
Funda kabanzi mayelana ne-Science Diplomat Podcast: Sir Peter Gluckman ngeseluleko seSayensi, ukwethenjwa, kanye nemikhawulo yobufakazi Funda kabanzi ngeSayensi engenamingcele: Ukusebenzisana kwamazwe ngamazwe kwesizukulwane esilandelayo sabacwaningi Funda kabanzi mayelana nokucabanga Kabusha ukukhula kanye nokuqina ohlelweni lwendawo yocwaningo 